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Plate Quenching Question

Discussion in 'Heat Treating' started by Vincent Zed, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. Vincent Zed

    Vincent Zed New Member

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    Hi everyone,
    I've been making knives for a few years now and i'm just getting into stainless. Right now, I'm quenching my knives IN the stainless foil they are heat treated in, but I'm wondering if it's not smarter to take them out before I do so. Does anyone remove the foil first? Let me know!
     
  2. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    It is a good idea to remove them from the foil and depending on the stainless you have up to 2 minutes to get below the 600F mark.

    Some stainless can be quenched in oil until below 900F and then plate quench or air quenched. Lot depends on the Stainless in question
     
  3. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    I used to press them in the plates with the foil on. Be careful not to apply too much pressure or the super hot foil will weld to the super hot blade. Heat and pressure make forge welding possible. You have the heat so be careful with the pressure. I now use a stop off paint and can plate or oil quench without worry.

    Dan
     
  4. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    forgot about the welding foil to blade stunt, boy I had a doozy when that happened.
     
  5. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    Are you two @dancom and @John Noon still using the Condursal Z1100? If so, Dan I’d like to ask, since I think I read that you prefer to oil quench AEB-L these days, how the Condursal is with oil quenching?

    Is it a bitch to get off after (is what I really mean:D:p)?
     
  6. Vincent Zed

    Vincent Zed New Member

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    Thanks for the responses! I'm currently using Nitro-V and AEB-L steel for anyone interested
     
  7. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    I use Condursal Z1100. There is almost no cleanup with plate quench. Like a shot of steel wool would do it. With oil there's a bit more schmeg on there, but I grind my bevels after heat treat so it's getting cleaned up either way.
     
  8. ToddR

    ToddR Putterer, Tinkerer, Waster of Time Staff Member

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    Schmeg? This is a technical term I'm not familiar with. Is it only a by product of stainless air quenching? : )
     
  9. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    John Noon likes this.
  10. FORGE

    FORGE Maker of the Year Best Knife

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    When you use salt you don't have to worry about all that stuff. A quick clean up with 600 and you are done.
    Have you guys seen this heat treating with SAND, take a look.

     
  11. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    I have been considering salt either for the cooling phase or austenizing. One of those things I need to learn about and make space for in the shop
     
  12. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Unfortunately, there's still no magic bullet. One has to clean the burnt oil (schmeg) off if quenched in oil. For decarb protection an electric kiln with inert gas flood will work too. Cheaper than foil, but Condursal goes a LOOOOONG way. I have barely dented the can (pun intended) after about 30 larger kitchen knives. A whole can will do hundreds of blades. I guestimate somewhere around $0.20 a blade.

    I see that the EvenHeat salt pots are now rated for 2000°F. They were rated for (I believe) 1500°F or thereabouts a couple of years ago when I first looked into them. That initial temp spec made me wonder. I helped Jarod Todd (JT Custom Knives) on his sand pot tuning the controller in 2016. He had it up and running then. I will ask him if he is still using it.
     
  13. FORGE

    FORGE Maker of the Year Best Knife

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    Dan when you quench in ATF you don't get all that black crap on the blade. That is one reason I got rid of my Parks oil.
    I have quenched using ATF on over 500 blades ranging from high carbon steel to numerous kinds of SS and never had a problem with a poor heat treat and always have blades at consistent hardness, right where it should be.
     
  14. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    Found the suggested retail for the Evenheat salt pot and before shipping costs $3862.00 however they sell all the parts to build one which is not bad
     
  15. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Good tip Cal. The bonus is your quenchant can be found at the local auto or hardware store too.
     
  16. ToddR

    ToddR Putterer, Tinkerer, Waster of Time Staff Member

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    That's a great tip. Anything to cut down on the hand sanding is gold in my books : )
     
  17. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Less schmeg = :)

    LOL
     
  18. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid

    Is that what we are talking about here? If so mind blown. I never knew you could use this!!!

    I read numerous U.S ‘Bladeforum’ posts of some guys saying they used motor oil and getting smacked verbally upside the head by experienced knife makers for being so dumb lol. Motor oil is extremely toxic when heated to the point fumes are given off ie. quenching your 1500 degree blade in it haha.

    Anyway I don’t know much about ATF, but I’ll bow to @FORGE ’s experience and skill on this one.
     
  19. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Yes ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid, very unlike WTF. LOL
     
  20. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    Well before I say this...because text is cold...I want to say my tongue is planted firmly in my cheek and I have a big grin on my face when I say @FORGE Where the heck have you been through all the Quench Oil Posts!!!!!! Hahahahahah:p:D
     

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