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O1 Oil Selection

Discussion in 'Heat Treating' started by Huebert604, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. Huebert604

    Huebert604 New Member

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    Hey everyone,

    Im pretty new to knife making. I have been working with O1 and mineral Oil. I have also really enjoyed working with A2, but it becomes so expensive when you add in the SS foil.

    What quench oils do you experts recommend for O1? I see knifemaking.com has Chevron Texaco 70 for 150 USD for 5 gallons. From what i have read it sounds like it would be a good oil for O1 but to slow for some of the other oil quench steels.

    Are there any canadian sources for quench oils?

    Thanks for any input!
     
  2. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    I've never used quench oil, myself. I just use cheap canola oil. It works well for me with O1 or 1084.

    I know others who use a mix of used motor oil and transmission fluid they get from a local garage.
     
  3. Huebert604

    Huebert604 New Member

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  4. Rob W

    Rob W Active Member

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  5. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    Plus it's all natural and makes your shop smell like baking... :)
     
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  6. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    When I used canola it made my shop smell like burnt cooking oil. LOL

    Dan
     
  7. Huebert604

    Huebert604 New Member

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    there must be advantages to using a properly manufactured quench oil? After doing hours and hours of reading, what you use to quench seems like a very controversial topic that very few people agree on.

    This could be partially because so few people have access to proper hardness test equipment.
     
  8. Icho-

    Icho- Staff Member

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    Hardness testers are much more common than you may think. Like many other things there is the expensive industrial version, no name versions and perfectly suitable easy to acquire versions.
     
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  9. Rob W

    Rob W Active Member

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    yes there are certain advantages of specific quench oils for "specific" steels , O1 is not one of them........use canola and live happily ever after , if you wish to experiment by all means giv'r.....
    visit Master Bladesmith Kevin Cashens website and read lots.....he will answer many questions...
    as for testers , as MR Icho sir said they are more common than you may think and absolute must shop tool in my opinion, especially if you prefer to dabble in ''experimenting''
     
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  10. Huebert604

    Huebert604 New Member

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    Thanks guys. I totally agree that you can get affordable hardness testers. Without a lot of money invested you are getting a resolution in increments of 5. Makes it challenging to compare quenchants when it might just be the difference between 60 and 62 HRC.

    @rob i will check out Kevin Cashens web site.

    Thanks again for all the info!
     
  11. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    I am a air/plate quench guy so I can take a long time to get past the nose.

    Availability and cost are certainly reasons we hit the Walmart and leave all giddy with 10 gallons of vegetable oil.

    If a hardness tester could tell me within 0.1 Rockwell, I would be ecstatic, but I'd probably have had to mortgage the house to get that machine.
    Jeff at MetTech has a couple of them for "cheap", but they are only good to, as he put it, "within 1 or 2 points."
    Knifemakers (I think) are more likely to say "plus or minus a point is okay." At least they'll have a known range.

    This forum has a few members inquiring about quench oils. In the meantime, I'll keep asking suppliers.

    Dan
     
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  12. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    Purpose made quench oils are a relatively new thing for knifemakers. Stacked against them are many generations of makers who devised and used their own quenchants from what was available. And lets face it, most knifemakers are folks who like to build their own solutions.

    Is there a real advantage to using manufactured quench oil? Certainly for commercial production. For most of us, I don't know. They may indeed perform much better in lab testing (or at least the Marketing dept. spins it that way). However, given the wide variety of setups among hobbyists, with various types of gas forges, coal forges, salt pots, and electric ovens; the variety and quality of steels we use; all the different heat-treating techniques; I'm not sure quench oil is the defining element that makes or breaks the knife. It's more important to know and understand your own process so that you can produce consistent, repeatable results.
     
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  13. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    I have to admit, I used old engine oil on my first knife. Oh ya, that smell of fried engine stayed in my shop for days even with the big door open. Used motor oil also contains heavy metals and all kinds of nasty crap. Breathing that is like smoking a pack of Michelins. So, vegetable oil it was after that.

    I have to agree with Tim, although I hate to use the words "breaks the knife" in a sentence! :confused: It's a combination of things that make the final hardness.
    E.g. a poorly regulated tempering oven may have more of an influence on final hardness than the choice of quench fluid.

    Currently, I am working on a lead at a commercial heat treat firm here in Alberta. He's asking about volume. How much would you be interested in?
    I should hear back from him today as to what product(s) they are using.

    Dan
     
  14. Huebert604

    Huebert604 New Member

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    Good info, thanks Dan!

    How much fluctuation is acceptable? I built my kiln with a ramp soak PID and havent done any manual tuning. It tends to drop about 5f to 7f degrees and go over by 2f or 3f degrees. Its a pretty large swing, but not sure if that is enough of a difference at such high temperatures. At tempering temperatures it has a much smaller swing usually within 1 or 2 degrees.

    I will be looking to buy 5 to 7 gallons.
     
  15. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Huebert,

    With the tempering oven remark, I was mostly referring to the toaster oven crowd where one thinks it's 150°C (300°F) when it fact it's 200°C (400°F). This can mean a couple of points in some cases.

    I mentioned 5 gallons. I understand it to be an Esso product, probably Fenso 90/150.
    http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/Lubes/PDS/IOCAENINDMOFenso_90_150.aspx
    Waiting on some more details. My questions are being routed to a distributor in Calgary so it takes time to get replies.

    Dan
     
  16. BigUglyMan

    BigUglyMan Active Member

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    I prefer burnt French fries to the stench of a transmission shop set ablaze!
     
  17. snailgixxer

    snailgixxer Golf season is here:)!!!!

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    Slightly off topic ( quenching oils) but I recently met a knife maker in town here and he blew my mind when he told me how he quenched his CPM D2, I don't know much about the trade yet, but he had two aluminum blocks (I'd say 1"x6"x18") and he just pulls the blade out and puts it between the plates and press down a bit... This is likely common knowledge. But it surprised me.
     
  18. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    Plate quenching is pretty common for air quench steels. The aluminum plates draw the heat out of the steel evenly and help prevent warping.
     
  19. snailgixxer

    snailgixxer Golf season is here:)!!!!

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    Yeah, pretty fascinating actually. Amazing what one can learn when meeting a fellow knife maker.
     
  20. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    Indeed. That's one of the great things about this obsession. Every maker has his/her some unique ideas and methods to share.
     

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