1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Kbac-27d

Discussion in 'Grinders' started by Griff, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Does anyone have photos of the internal wiring of KBAC-27D wired for the 240v usage? Every video on YouTube is guys running their VFD off of 110V.

    On the left side of the machine (for arguments sake let’s say I am using 10 gauge wire) 10-3 wiring hooks up the VFD to the motor, Black, Red, White, Ground...no problem that’s clear.

    Now on the power side. I have run 10-2 wire from where my grinder will be, receptacle/plug etc, over to where my panel will be with a 240v 20 amp breaker. I did this because it was my understanding because I was going to use 240v power the right side of the VFD L1 L2 would be both hot, Black and Red.

    When wiring it 110v L1 is hot Black and L2 is White neutral.

    Someone correct me, or put my mind at ease I have it right lol

    Cheers,

    Griff
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  2. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You need the two hots and one ground for the supply power. No neutral required.

    Make sure to set the jumper J1 to 230 V.
    Wire L1 and L2 from your hot 1 (black) and hot 2 (red). lastly a green wire to one of the ground screws.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    You should be good to go.

    If you are setting it up for 115 V, then J1 is set to 115 V and L1 is hot and L2 is neutral.

    Dan
     
    Griff likes this.
  3. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Perfect! Thanks for putting my mind at ease @dancom

    :beer:
     
    dancom likes this.
  4. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds like you're getting ready to roll. Good luck!
     
  5. ToddR

    ToddR Putterer, Tinkerer, Waster of Time Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I was going to say "Dan has got to be all over this". He's the guy I pester about wiring stuff. (i have some kind of psychological block about understanding wiring diagrams)
     
  6. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hey Dan. Wondering if you know along this line does the motor have to be 3 phase? Can u use a single phase 220v. Ie. from princess auto electronically reversible on the kbac 27d hybrid drive?
     
  7. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi Robert,

    Yes. Three phase motor required.

    Single phase motors are constructed differently. Their poles are 180° apart, whereas a three phase motor has poles which are 120° apart. Because a single phase motor doesn't know which direction to rotate when power is applied; they have a starting circuit with a centrifugal switch and capacitor to encourage rotation in the desired direction. Once the motor is up to speed, the centrifugal switch is used to disconnect the starting circuit and the motor continues with this rotation until the power is removed or the motor is stalled.

    I have seen cases where guys hack the motor windings and switch and power a single phase motor on a VFD, but from an engineering perspective, this not a good idea. The VFD would need to be over-sized to compensate for the power losses. You're feeding with 2/3 power. In some cases, the VFD is smart and detects the missing motor winding and alarm on something called 'Output phase loss.' To the VFD it appears like a wire has come off a three phase motor. Some drives can be programmed to ignore this alarm, other drives cannot. I am not knowledgeable of the control algorithms in KBAC drives, but I would think there is some monitoring of the output going on other than strictly current for overload.

    For the most part, three phase motors are simpler, more reliable and cheaper than single phase motors. No costs or failures associated with centrifugal switches or capacitors. You can probably get a three phase motor from AutomationDirect shipped to your house for cheaper than Princess Auto's single phase of the same horsepower. I think I paid around CA$215 for my last 2HP motor from them. It shipped from Cumming Georgia to Edmonton in five days via FedEx. This is the one I bought for my Sayber OSG a few years back. https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...eneral_purpose/general_purpose/mtrp-002-3bd36 Gets regular use and is still going strong.

    Dan
     
  8. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thanks for the info. Really appreciated
     
    dancom likes this.
  9. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    43
    KBAC-27D here from the guy I dealt with. In U.S funds:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/KB-Electronics-KBAC-27D-AC-motor-control-9520-2HP-6-7A/303569281153

    VFD $357.00
    Shipping $19.91
    Import Taxes $53.61

    Total $430.52 U.S or $592.89 cad at time of posting.

    All done through EBay’s global shipping program. Nothing to pay when it gets to your Canadian address.

    Here’s some the other part numbers you will/ or might like to source

    Forward - Stop - Reverse Switch For 27D #9480 (note this switch works on the 24D also)
    Power On/ Off Switch For 27D #9523 (This on / off is for 27D and 29D models)


    Check this against Canadian prices before buying :beer:
     
    John Noon and dancom like this.
  10. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    621
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is better price than the Canadian distributor, mind you I have run into distributors / wholesalers that are retail outlets in disguise so this does not surprise me anymore
     
    Griff likes this.
  11. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    So i got a new kbac 27d Vfd. New 2hp baldor motor. Wired it all up. And nothing happens. Light on vfd don't come on. I have checked power with a meter from main panel to new 20 amp plug and cord to vfd to motor. All checks out ok. This cant be this hard. Anyone have any thoughts of what is going on. I started all overMany times gone through step by step. Missing something.
     
  12. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Start at the input. Do you have 240V coming to L1 & L2? Assuming you are going with 240V for full horsepower.
     
  13. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Yes i do.
     
  14. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Strikes me odd that the green light doesnt light up. And i have full power to motor
     
  15. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Jumper J1 set to 230V position? Is there are Line power switch installed or two jumpers on L1A and L1B and L2A and L2B?
     
  16. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can you take a picture of the mainboard?
     
  17. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is strange if the motor is running while the VFD is off. Highly unusual.
     
  18. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Yep that is right. 230v. I put the switch in as an extra. then to took it out Tonight thinking maybe the switch. So i out the jumpers back and still nothing
     
  19. Robert scott

    Robert scott New Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Sorry motor not running but i have power to the motor leads
     
  20. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It could be some leakage through the IGBTs that fire the motor. It may read something with the meter is it's very high impedance. If you have J1 @ 230V position and the jumpers in, at L1 and L2 are 230 V across them, then the power LED should be on.
     

Share This Page