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Dan's Bird & Trout Work In Process

Discussion in '2016 KITH' started by dancom, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    OK here we go!

    I have started on the patterns. I am working with two that land in the 7-1/2" length from pattern DH55
    which is a good place to start.

    [​IMG]

    I glued the paper down to some thin plywood with 5 minute epoxy.
    [​IMG]


    I am shaping the choil with a 1" drum. Lots of room for the index finger.
    [​IMG]


    Here are the two patterns. Not sure whether to make a 55a (top) or a 55 (bottom)...
    [​IMG]

    So why not make them both?
    [​IMG]

    I have a 2" piece of 0.130" AEB-L stainless that will fit these two very well.

    Dan
     
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  2. bobbybirds

    bobbybirds Best New Maker

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    Both are sweet Dan, but if I was lucky enough to be drawn as the recipient of your knife I would I think I would secretly pine for the top 55a pattern!
     
  3. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Thanks for the feedback Bob!
     
  4. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Out of the piece of AEB-L I cleaved the two pieces on the Portaband. This makes life so much easier than the hacksaw method.

    [​IMG]

    The 55 has a fairly deep 1" finger choil.
    [​IMG]

    A 1" drum on the spindle sander makes easy work of the remaining finger choil material.
    [​IMG]

    Bringing the profile to the line with a chunky 36 grit belt. I am not super concerned about a perfect profile as this will be tweaked after heat treat.
    [​IMG]


    With a 50# magnet I run them on the flat platen to clean up the surfaces.
    [​IMG]

    This is the blank for the 55.
    [​IMG]

    This is the blank for the 55a.
    [​IMG]

    Now to layout the handle and pin holes and drill before heat treating.

    To be continued...
     
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  5. Icho-

    Icho- Staff Member

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    Looking good Dan. I also prefer the 55a.
     
  6. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Got the holes drilled and heat treatment done last night.

    So this is how the basic holes for pins are going to go. It will be a three piece handle (I hope).
    [​IMG]


    This is after blapping some more for weight reduction.
    [​IMG]


    Finished with 220 grit and cleaned before getting a coating of stop-off paint.
    [​IMG]


    Hung to dry.
    [​IMG]


    Once the oven reaches 860°C they blades go in. This is the lower recommended temperature for the stop-off paint.
    [​IMG]


    Once the oven is up to 1060°C, I let them sit there for 15 minutes to ensure everything is in solution.
    [​IMG]


    Oil quenched and ready to temper.
    [​IMG]


    I clamp them all together for tempering.
    [​IMG]


    First temper is a 175°C (~350°F), for the benefit of the kitchen knives as I want them at a higher hardness.
    I wanted to get the immediately into the oven to relieve some stress. The second temper for the bird & trouts will be at 200°C (~400°F).
    [​IMG]


    My handy timer shuts off the oven in 2 hours.
    [​IMG]

    Hope to get on the grinder tonight.

    Dan
     
  7. bobbybirds

    bobbybirds Best New Maker

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    Okay Dan... Couple questions... WTH is stop off paint and why are you doing this? Completely new to me lol!

    Also, why are you clamping the blades together instead of having the stand alone for tempering? Is this normal? Again, new to me! Haha
     
  8. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Bob,

    The stop-off paint is a protective coating for the steel at high temperatures. I used to use stainless steel foil envelopes/pouches. As you can see, the Condursal product leaves the blades fairly clean after cooking the steel at over 1000°C.

    I clamp the blades together so they keep shape when they unstress in the tempering. Thin steel can go bendy when the stress is drawn out of it. Keeping the mass together seems to help. It's a lot of effort trying to straighten a warped stainless blade and I am doing all I can to make less work.

    All four blades are straight!

    Dan
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
  9. bobbybirds

    bobbybirds Best New Maker

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    Awesome! All things I just learned from... Thanks!
     
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  10. Slannesh

    Slannesh Active Member

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    You don't do any grinding on the bevels before heat treating? I would assume again for the tendency to warp while tempering?

    That must be really hard on belts in the long run.
     
  11. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    Yes, I do all the bevel grinding post heat treat. I started doing this when making longer kitchen knives out of 3/32" stock and have stuck to it.

    Pros:
    If plate quenching, the whole surface of the steel is in contact with the plate, not just the tang and area along the spine.
    If oil quenching, (in my experience) thin stock has more chance of going wobbly during quench that thicker stock.
    I am going to have to grind the bevels after heat treatment anyways to bring the edge from about 0.050" down to 0.015" -0.020". Why not do the bevels in one operation?
    Grinding hardened steel is slower and I find I have more control over the process.

    Cons:
    A little hard on belts. In saying that, good ceramics stand up pretty well against hardened steel. Other abrasives not so well. I use Norton's Blaze belts.
    There is a chance that the heat generated during grinding will kill the temper. This applies to pre or post grinding though and is overcome by dunking the blade in the water pot a lot and reducing the beat build up. Fingers on the steel will tell you when it's getting too hot.

    I guess, everyone has their own way of doing things. I have found this to work. So far so good.

    :)

    Dan
     
  12. Slannesh

    Slannesh Active Member

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    Good to know. We're going to be starting my 2x72 build very soon and I need to buy belts... makes ceramics a much more attractive option.
     
  13. Icho-

    Icho- Staff Member

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    I also usually grind bevels after heat treat for pretty much the same reasons as Dan. Definitely go with ceramics. The first belt I got was an aluminum oxide and even at 3xthe cost the ceramic is the better price.
     
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  14. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    One trick ...the sharp 90°angles of hardened steel will seriously do a number on a fresh belt when starting the bevels. It will literally spray ceramic chunks out. So to help save a few buck$, use an old belt to knock off the 90. Once you've got a few passes in, you can put the new belt on and grind away. I keep a few worn 36 or 60 grit belts around for just this purpose. ;-)

    Dan
     
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  15. Slannesh

    Slannesh Active Member

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    Good to know, thanks gents..

    Honestly it's going to be a huge cost savings once I pay off the grinder.. Belts cost only marginally more for the good ones than i'm currently paying for my 1x30 belts.
     
  16. krash-bang

    krash-bang Active Member

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    Where would a fella get some of this stop-off paint?
     
  17. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    I got mine from a place Calgary that Cal (FORGE) suggested. They are called MetTech. http://mettech.ca/
    It's pricey for a quart but will replaces hundreds of feet of stainless foil.

    Dan
     
  18. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    Great build, Dan. I like both profiles (though I think the 55a might be slightly more versatile to use. I'm looking forward to the finish.
     
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  19. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    With all the yard work and planting and prepping for garden I haven't had much of a chance to spend a few hours in the shop. I have got the blade ready to finish sand. Happy with it so far.

    [​IMG]

    Anyone else making progress?

    Dan
     
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  20. bobbybirds

    bobbybirds Best New Maker

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    Mannnnnn... I have not set foot in my shop for weeks now! Super depressed about it. So much going on right now in "the real world" I just haven't had a minute to spare, and all I want to do is ignore everything else and get back into the shop... Soon!
     

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